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Opened 7 years ago

Last modified 6 weeks ago

#2269 new enhancement

Add rich microdata markup to breadcrumbs

Reported by: netweb Owned by: espellcaste
Milestone: 2.7 Priority: normal
Severity: minor Version: 2.2.3
Component: General Keywords:
Cc: jared@…, mercijavier@…

Description

Introduce 'microdata' support for breadcrumbs.

Microdata is supported (and preferred over microformats) by the major search engines Bing, Google & Yahoo.

References: HTML5 microdata spec | Google Microdata Breadcrumbs & Bing Microdata Breadcrumbs

Attachments (2)

2269.1.diff (5.2 KB) - added by netweb 7 years ago.
First pass
2269.2.diff (5.5 KB) - added by netweb 7 years ago.

Download all attachments as: .zip

Change History (35)

@netweb
7 years ago

First pass

#1 @alexvorn2
7 years ago

  • Severity changed from normal to minor

my opinion is that is a minor improvement..
:)

#2 @netweb
7 years ago

  • Milestone changed from Awaiting Review to 2.4

#3 @jaredatch
7 years ago

  • Cc jared@… added

#4 follow-up: @jaredatch
7 years ago

One question to ask is, if we are going to use Microdata here, should be use it in other places as well? User profiles, topics, etc? Would it be worth expanding the scope of this?

#5 in reply to: ↑ 4 @sooskriszta
7 years ago

Replying to jaredatch:

One question to ask is, if we are going to use Microdata here, should be use it in other places as well? User profiles, topics, etc? Would it be worth expanding the scope of this?

Might be better to use schema.org markup wherever possible. Google and Bing seem to favor that lately.

#6 @jaredatch
7 years ago

I agree. I've had to work with microdata a fair amount for client sites and schema.org is indeed the defacto standard.

#7 @netweb
7 years ago

Indeed the ideal scenario would be to use schema.org though in this instance there is are a few issues with the http://schema.org/WebPage properties for the 'Breadcrumb' schema.

Detailed info can be found in the following:
http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Breadcrumbs
http://www.w3.org/2011/webschema/track/issues/10

I have attached another patch 2269.2.diff and this patch uses RDF rather than Microdata as the site I originally implemented this uses lots of custom HTML with bbp_breadcrumb & bbp_parse_args and without changing lots off bbPress default CSS using the RDF format keeps changes to a minimum.

We can punt this ticket to 'Future Release' whilst waiting for an updated Breadcrumb schema via schema.org or implement this and then later down the track update to schema.org schema once an updated schema is ratified.

I also agree that expanding the the use of 'metadata' around bbPress with schema's via schema.org is a good thing.

If you test this patch you can test the results on how Google sees this data here.

@netweb
7 years ago

#8 @alex-ye
7 years ago

hmm, seems interesting ... I am thinking if we could separate the micro-data attributes from the original HTML, so we can make it work with any system like micro-data, micro-formats ... etc

This also will make theme designers more control about which system they prefer to use or if they don't at all.

#9 @johnjamesjacoby
7 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 2.4 to 2.5

Patch looks good, but I'm apprehensive to commit to any standard without doing more research.

Moving to 2.5.

#10 @johnjamesjacoby
6 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 2.5 to 2.6

Moving to 2.6 to help limit the work needed to get 2.5 out the door.

#11 @netweb
6 years ago

Kind of off topic but related to author microdata for any other future referenced tickets.
via @shrewdies on bbpress.org Google Webmaster 'rel=author' FAQ

#12 @netweb
6 years ago

Another related doc, a proposal for a schema.org 'Discussions' schema for 'forums', though I expect it will be quite a while before it gets into the spec.

http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/DiscussionSchema

#13 @johnjamesjacoby
6 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 2.6 to 2.7

Bump to 2.7.

#14 @inetbizo
6 years ago

Says milestone 2.7 is due in 5 weeks. @netweb patch https://bbpress.trac.wordpress.org/attachment/ticket/2269/2269.2.diff the one to test?

#15 @netweb
6 years ago

@inetbizo The patch needs refreshing and a quick glance around the resources I think this will get bumped to at least 2.8, possibly just 'Future Release' until a 'spec' can be agreed upon.

There is also some merit in @alex-ye idea above " I am thinking if we could separate the micro-data attributes from the original HTML, so we can make it work with any system like micro-data, micro-formats ... etc"

The W3C made their first 'breadcrumb' commit to the HTML 5.1 Draft spec two days ago and that is vastly different to the way things currently are in bbPress or the patches attached to this ticket.

When I get a chance I'll take another look and update the references here in this ticket.

#16 follow-up: @inetbizo
6 years ago

@netweb I was poking around at your function and hook list. You do have a before and after hook at each section.

I would propose there is further documentation on HOWTO extend microdata/microformatting using theme hooks by copying the plugin theme to our theme folder and extending our function files for schema data.

I see you are already a member of our forums. It's quite dead aside from our two internal users and we don't mind at all being a test case. We do use YOAST breadcrumbs and our forum(s) use page shortcodes.

The entire theme, so far, has used hatom. bbpress sorely lacks many attributes of hatom as a starting point. We also use WP-MULTI. I do have development blogs that can use a different theme and entirely new microformat/microdata test case.

I'm excited to contribute as much as I can to the best forum plugin for WP!

#18 @inetbizo
6 years ago

http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/interactive-elements.html#the-dialog-element if you used dialog, might need to notify w3c to not deprecate the dialog tag.

Last edited 6 years ago by inetbizo (previous) (diff)

#19 @inetbizo
6 years ago

I would then wrap that in an HTML5 <main> tag. See http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/grouping-content.html#the-main-element

#20 in reply to: ↑ 16 ; follow-up: @netweb
6 years ago

Replying to inetbizo:

I would propose there is further documentation on HOWTO extend microdata/microformatting using theme hooks by copying the plugin theme to our theme folder and extending our function files for schema data.

I think we need a few more hooks in bbPress before this could be acheived at the moment.

The dialog element has nothing to do with this and in the W3 case per definition:

"The dialog element represents a part of an application that a user interacts with to perform a task, for example a dialog box, inspector, or window."

As to what gets used for the actual 'discussions' of topics/replies there are quite a few different theories on how to do this as outlined here, there is a proposal for schema.org that you can check out here.

One thing to understand here is these schema proposals move very slowly and take a long time before being accepted in any of the 'microdata' formats.

#21 in reply to: ↑ 20 @inetbizo
6 years ago

Replying to netweb:

I think we need a few more hooks in bbPress before this could be acheived at the moment.

At least right now there are before and after hooks for title, description, author, etc, right?

One thing to understand here is these schema proposals move very slowly and take a long time before being accepted in any of the 'microdata' formats.

Then how about building up documentation on the before and after hooks and practical application for hatom? I see a lot of search results and discussion about broken hatom for bbpress and google rich snippet tools. =)

#22 @inetbizo
6 years ago

I also see google display forum results, differently. 1st topic and then several threads. I wonder what they are looking for in their recipe?

#23 @mercime
5 years ago

  • Cc mercijavier@… added

#24 @johnjamesjacoby
5 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 2.7 to 2.8

Bumping all 2.7 to 2.8 milestone.

#25 @netweb
5 years ago

  • Keywords has-patch 2nd-opinion needs-testing removed
  • Milestone changed from 2.8 to Future Release

Moving this to "future release", a quick glance at the references listed above reveals that basically nothing has happened in a long time towards ratifying any standard for breadcrumbs, on the other side of this though is accessibility and breadcrumbs has made some 'standards' progress, lets come back this if a standard ever does come along.

Related: #2635 Accessibility: Templates - Breadcrumbs

#28 @netweb
4 years ago

FYI: Jetpack just added schema.org to their breadcrumbs https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/pull/3528

#29 @netweb
3 years ago

See also https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/breadcrumbs

I've advocated for Microformats for a long time, as there's been no movement in ~4 years for breadcrumbs by Microformats I think we should use schema.org's format, also webschema.org is the now from what I've just read a newer version of schema.org, schema.org development is now on GitHub https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg

See also https://schema.org/docs/howwework.html https://schema.org/docs/about.html

This ticket was mentioned in Slack in #bbpress by netweb. View the logs.


2 years ago

#31 @espellcaste
2 years ago

  • Milestone changed from Future Release to 2.6
  • Owner set to espellcaste

I'm owning this ticket and I plan to provide an updated patch for 2.6 or 2.7 in coming days.

I'm going to use https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/breadcrumbs as you suggested @netweb, also because I believe it's considered the standard now.

#32 @johnjamesjacoby
2 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 2.6 to 2.7

Let's do this in 2.7.

#33 @netweb
6 weeks ago

via https://wptavern.com/google-search-console-adds-breadcrumbs-report-sends-out-warnings-for-structured-data-errors

Google Search Console Adds Breadcrumbs Report, Sends Out Warnings for Structured Data Errors

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